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'Report and Proceedings of a Sub-Committee of the Committee of Imperial Defence on the Baghdad Railway, Southern Persia, and the Persian Gulf' [‎26r] (56/332)

The record is made up of 1 volume (162 folios). It was created in Feb 1909. It was written in English. The original is part of the British Library: India Office The department of the British Government to which the Government of India reported between 1858 and 1947. The successor to the Court of Directors. Records and Private Papers Documents collected in a private capacity. .

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Evidence of Sir J. Mackay.
35
but I think naturally, when you are running a steamer and opposing each other, after
a time you get tired of it and you want to come to some arrangement to stop the loss.
It always ends in that. When you have rival lines, to begin with they fight and they
are very angry with each other for a bit; then they begin to get calmer, and they
come together and square their differences and share the trade.
192. I agree ; but does that not show that it is rather commercial than political?
—It is probabJy commercial just now.
193. That is what I thought ?—Herr Ballin’s approaching them is probably
commercial.
194. Is that not the sort of thing that really happens in any part of the world
between rival Companies ? It is happening now between the Royal Mail Steam Packet
Company and Herr Ballin in reference to the trade between the West Indies and
New York ; they fought for years, and now they are coming to terms ?—Yes. They
always do eventually.
195. Ballin’s Company is a very powerful Company, is it not ?—It is—very.
196. It made, I think, about a million and a-quarter last year ?—Yes.
197. And a million and a-half the previous year ?—Yes. They have done
very well.
198. That is clean profit ?—Yes.
199. Herr Ballin’s policy is to run lines of steamers when he cannot hope to get a
profitable trade for five or ten years, if there is a growing trade with a view to capturing
it later on ; is that not so ?—Have you found that ? I do not know that I have found
it in regard to him.
200. Has he not been doing it ?—I do not know that he has.
201. I thought he had been spreading into every part of the globe ?—He has been
running about, but I do not think he has had any idea of monopolizing trades. He
has run across the Atlantic, he has run out to Australia, he has run up to China, and
he has run out to South America.
202. That is pretty well covering the whole world ?—Yes, it is.
203. Is that not the idea—and the Emperor encourages him ?—The Emperor does
encourage him.
204. But not with subsidies ?—I think he has got subsidies.
205. Is he really subsidized to the same extent that our British ships are
subsidized now to cover the mail contracts ?—Do you know how much his subsidy is ?
Mr. Lloyd-Geouge : My only recollection is that there was a House of Commons
inquiry four or five years ago, and they came to the conclusion that, with the
exception of British East Africa, our ships were subsidized more heavily than German
ships all over the world.
Mr. Morley : Subsidized in the true sense of a subsidy, or paid handsomely for
services ?
206. Mr. Lloyd-George : Paid handsomely for carrying the mails. Do you
recollect that Committee, Sir James ?—Yes, I do.
207. Do you know whether the Singapore and Bangkok trade paid Holts ?—It did
not. He was veiy glad to get rid of it. He made a very good sale of all his old ships.
208. They were losing money over it ?—He was not doing any good with them.
209. Do you think that Herr Ballin is making anything out of it ?—It is not Herr
Ballin ; it is the Norddeutscher Lloyd.
210. Do you think they are making anything out of it ?—I saw the manager of it
the other day, and I was asking him whether he was doing any good, and he said it
was just beginning to pay now, he thought.
211. After how many years ?—They bought it about ten years ago.
212. Do you not think it is what Herr Ballin is doing here, having regard to
the prospects of the trade ?—He did not buy a trade here. He started running a
steamer from Hamburg up to Basra.
213. When ?—About four years ago. He started running a steamer once a month.
214. The trade is growing in the Persian Gulf The historical term used to describe the body of water between the Arabian Peninsula and Iran. ?—I do not think the trade is
growing very much.
215. I think the figures we had last time show that it has been growing very
considerably ? Do you not think it would be a commercial speculation on his part if
he thought the trade was growing ?—No ; I cannot think that it was.
216. Not four years ago?—No; I do not think so. I do not think it was a
commercial speculation with him.
T376J
L

About this item

Content

The volume contains the following minutes and proceedings:

  • First Meeting, 2 March 1908. Evidence of Sir Richmond Thackeray Willoughby Ritchie.
  • Second Meeting, 6 March 1908. Evidence of Sir J Mackay.
  • Third Meeting, 11 March 1908. Evidence of Mr Frank Clark Strick and Mr E Lloyd.
  • Fourth Meeting, 17 March 1908. Evidence of Sir Louis William Dane.
  • Fifth Meeting, 19 March 1908. Evidence of Mr P Thomas and Mr G Lloyd.
  • Sixth Meeting, 25 March 1908. Evidence of Mr Henry Finnis Blosse Lynch, and Major J A Douglas.
  • Seventh Meeting, 30 March 1908. Evidence of Sir William Lee-Warner, and Colonel Charles Edward Yate.
  • Digest of Evidence in Order of Witnesses.
  • Digest of Evidence by Subjects.

Appendices:

Maps:

  • Folio 76. Sketch to illustrate positions of Flagstaffs at Elphinstone Inlet and Sheep Island (Musandim Peninsula).
  • Folio 87. Sketches of Approaches to Kuweit Harbour and Shatt Al Arab, compiled from various authorities.
  • Folio 118v. Map of Mohammerah and district prepared in 1850. Shows the proposed Turkish, Persian and mediating Commissioners' lines.
  • Folio 152. Sketch Maps to Shew Railways in Asia Minor.
  • Folio 153. Map showing the Persian Gulf The historical term used to describe the body of water between the Arabian Peninsula and Iran. and adjacent countries.
Extent and format
1 volume (162 folios)
Arrangement

A table of contents can be found at folio 4. An index to the minutes of evidence and appendices can be found at folios 154-162.

Physical characteristics

Foliation: the foliation sequence commences at the inside front cover with 1, and terminates at the inside back cover with 164; these numbers are written in pencil, are circled, and are located in the top right corner of the recto The front of a sheet of paper or leaf, often abbreviated to 'r'. side of each folio. Pagination: the volume also contains an original printed pagination sequence (xi, 297pp, 5 maps).

Written in
English in Latin script
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'Report and Proceedings of a Sub-Committee of the Committee of Imperial Defence on the Baghdad Railway, Southern Persia, and the Persian Gulf' [‎26r] (56/332), British Library: India Office Records and Private Papers, IOR/L/PS/20/263, in Qatar Digital Library <https://www.qdl.qa/archive/81055/vdc_100040910242.0x000039> [accessed 29 March 2024]

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