File of printed papers marked 'Egyptian negotiation' between Curzon and Adly Pasha and the Egyptian delegation [‎38v] (76/178)

Lord Curzon said that Adly Pasha An Ottoman title used after the names of certain provincial governors, high-ranking officials and military commanders. had mentioned the right of Turkey to prevent
the issue of a loan. How did they manage in die old days?
Sidky Pasha An Ottoman title used after the names of certain provincial governors, high-ranking officials and military commanders. said that no loan had been raised since 188*2, when a certain sum had
to be produced in order to pay compensation for the damage caused by the disturbance
at Alexandria.
Mr. Lindsay said that he believed Turkey had been represented at the conference
who authorised the raising of this sum.
Lord Curzon then enquired what exactly was meant by the control of the
Legislative Assembly, and whether it was intended that any proposed loan would
have to be submitted to the Legislative Assembly and approved by tnat body. He
asked Mr. Lindsay how far he considered such provision would provide an adequate
safeguard.
Mr. Lindsay replied that it would ensure publicity, but nothing more.
Lord Curzon said that the clause in his proposal had been suggested by
Lord Allenby and that there was no desire to place the Financial Commissioner in
the position of a despotic authority, but only to ensure that a loan would not be raised
on unsound principles or disadvantageous terms behind his back. The position of the
Financial Commissioner would be untenable it he were not consulted in matters of this
kind. The real question was whether it was necessary to insert this clause as a
safeguard. The view of the delegation on every subject was that in the future all
Egyptian Governments would behave in an exemplary fashion, and that no precautions
were therefore required.
Adly Pasha An Ottoman title used after the names of certain provincial governors, high-ranking officials and military commanders. replied that, unless they believed that this was the case, they would
not be justified in claiming the privileges which they were claiming; but if they had
faith in themselves and thought they could organise an adequate control of their own,
then they were entitled to claim their liberty.
Lord Curzon said that in financial matters guarantees and safeguards were, from
his experience, always and everywhere necessary, both in eastern and western countries.
They existed to a large degree in this country. In India he had found them essential.
He thought he might say that financial standards were higher in western than in
Oriental countries. In the large native States he had frequently found it necessary to
set up a form of financial control not imposing it on the State, but creating it with
their consent and often at their request.
He then pointed out that they had so far only dealt with the question of raising
loans, and enquired their views as to the second part of the clause dealing with
pledging revenue.
Adly Pasha An Ottoman title used after the names of certain provincial governors, high-ranking officials and military commanders. replied that their views on this point were practically the same.
Lord Curzon said that they had maintained that the raising of loans would be
safeguarded by the publicity that would be necessary owing to the approval of the
Legislative Assembly having to be obtained Did this equally apply to assignment of
revenue ? It frequently happened in eastern countries that it was necessary to assign
certain revenue as security. It happened in Persia, a country with which he had no
desire to compare Egypt. All that was suggested was that the Egyptian Government’s
own official should exercise supervision in this matter. Why, he inquired, did they
wish to keep him in the dark ?
Adly Pasha An Ottoman title used after the names of certain provincial governors, high-ranking officials and military commanders. denied that they had any wish to keep him in the dark. They
merely wished to ensure that he should not be superior to the Government and
Parliament.
Lord Curzon said that there was no wish to make the official superior to the
Government and Parliament, but merely to ensure that he should be consulted and
should be able to give his advice. It would be open to the Government presumably to
overrule the Financial Commissioner and not to accept his advice, even when offered.
This would, of course, place that official in a somewhat difficult position and would
possibly entail his resignation. They seemed, however, to have some idea that it was
intended to make some sort of tyrant out of the Financial Commissioner.
Adly Pasha An Ottoman title used after the names of certain provincial governors, high-ranking officials and military commanders. replied that that was precisely what the Egyptian people feared, i.e.,
that the British representative would exercise excessive power and that his advice
would have to be taken. It was for this reason that they desired a formula which
would define his duties.
Lord Curzon replied that the Financial Commissioner would not be a British
representative but a servant of the Egyptian Government. He also desired nothing
better than to find a formula, but of those which he had proposed the delegation had
not accepted a single line, not even a single word. On the other hand they had not yet
produced any formulae of their own.