Letters and Papers Concerning the Trans-Persian Railway and Other Railways in Persia [‎180v] (360/442)

Viscount Allendale.
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Coal Mines
292
[ LORDS ] (Northumberland) Bill.
equally in these mines ; and to omit these that nearly two years elapsed between the
from the provisions of the Bill would be ;
anomalous. Then, as Lord Joicey has
pointed out, this Bill applies only to
Northumberland. Of course, if it is
passed for Northumberland it would be
quite impossible to exclude Durham.
It would be most unfair to pass such an
Act to apply to one county only. Lord
Joicey pointed out that the three-shift
system is even more largely worked in
Durham than in the county of North
umberland. So that if this Bill were
passed to apply to the county of North
umberland it should equally apply to the
county of Durham.
I do not think that His Majesty’s
Government can be accused of any lack
of sympathy with the workers of this
country, whether they work above or
below the ground, especially those who
are engaged in trades involving a certain
amount of risk. No legislation of the
character of the Eight Hours Act can
be brought into operation without some
alteration in the long standing custom
of working arrangements. As I have said,
whilst having every sympathy with the
inconvenience caused by the new system
which has had to be introduced, His
Majesty’s Government feel that the case
for interference with the arrangements
come to voluntarily between masters
and men has not been made out, and
therefore are not prepared to alter them
by legislation of the character proposed
by the noble Lord opposite.
The Earl of CRAWFORD : My Lords,
I cannot help saying that while listening
to the speech of my noble friend who
introduced this Bill it occurred to me that
he did not quite realise how complex is
the organisation and how delicate is the
adjustment between capital and labour in
a great industry like the coal industry. It
is impossible to fire off a great measure of
change and expect it to be applied to so
complicated an organisation without shak
ing to the foundations the whole principle
and practice upon which the coal mining
industry now rests.
The proposals of this Bill would do more
to revolutionise the coal trade in Northum
berland than was done by the Eight Hours
Act. My noble friend who gives four, five,
or even six months to Northumberland to
bring itself within the scope of this Bill,
should it be passed, should have recollected
introduction of the Eight Hours Bill by
the Government of the day and its applica
tion to this particular county. This Bill
is a very drastic Bill and much more far-
reaching than my noble friend apparently
appreciates. The first clause says that
from six at night till three on the following
morning—that is nine hours—no work of
any kind or description, accidents apart,
shall be permitted in a mine. The noble
Lord probably knows that nine hours on
paper means ten or perhaps eleven hours
in practice. Well, to take out of the work
ing day, eleven, ten, or even nine hours,
whatever time during the working day
those nine hours are selected, is a very far-
reaching and drastic step. But the second
subsection of Clause 1 goes even further,
and enacts that no haulage is to take place
during a period of twelve hours in each
twenty-four.
My noble friend calls this a Bill to abolish
the three-shift system, but it never men
tions the three-shift system. If this Bill
were passed, assuming consent to exist
between the employers and employed, there
is no reason why the three-shift system
should not continue. There is no reason,
indeed, why even four, five, or six shifts
should not be worked under the present
Bill. It is purely a Bill to limit hours ;
and not only to limit hours, but to state
the limitations within which those hours
shall be limited. The noble Lord w r as not
quite clear as to the result upon the working
hours of those directly concerned. At the
present moment the hewer in Northumber
land works on the average from six and
a-half hours to six hours fifty minutes. If this
Bill were passed his hours would inevitably
assimilate to those of the hewer in Lanca
shire or in South Wales. Instead of from
six hours thirty minutes to six hours fifty
minutes he would work eight hours. Did
the advocates of this Bill put that point
to my noble friend ? Did they wish to
enlarge their working hours ? Because that,
economically speaking, is the inevitable
result of his proposal.
The noble Lord said—I confess it sur
prised me somewhat—that those with whom
he had discussed this question had failed to
make their grievances felt. He repeated
that statement during his speech. Why
; have they failed to make their grievances
felt ? The miners have their agents. The
number of colliers in trade unions in the