'Report and Proceedings of a Sub-Committee of the Committee of Imperial Defence on the Baghdad Railway, Southern Persia, and the Persian Gulf' [‎25v] (55/332)

34 Second Meeting, Gth March, 1908.
guarantee, so it may be hung up for some time ?—I cannot conceive that any Company
in its senses would start a line from Hamburg to Basra with the present traffic purely
with the idea of getting in there when the railway line is made ten years hence.
172. I think that the pegging out of the claim still exists in this way : though the
completion of the Baghdad Railway may be a long way off, they want to establish their
position now, so much so that when they come to make the further sections of the
Baghdad Railway they may be able to say that German interests in the trade are so
preponderating that they cannot let anybody else in ?—Yes, I think that that is so.
173. But it comes to this: that you assume that the competition which British
ship-owners have to meet from the Hamburg-Amerika Line is not really a commercial
but is a political competition at the present moment ?—I should say so.
174. Therefore their claim for receiving a subsidy would be that you should give
it not as a commercial subsidy ?—That is so.
175. But for political reasons?—You fight them with their own weapons.
176. Because the competition with which they are faced is not commercial?—
Precisely.
177. If Herr Ballm has a subsidy from the German Government, it is not very
clear why he should approach the British shipowners at all ?—No, it is not; and that
is a point that I do not quite understand. Of course it is quite possible that the
German Government said to him, “ If you start this business we will give you a
subsidy for two or three years and see what you can make of it.” They may have got
tired of paying this, and have told him that he must go on his own basis now ; and
then he may have turned round to these English ship-owners and said, “ Let us make
a pool, and see if we cannot improve things.”
178. So it is quite possible that it is bluff?—It may be.
179. And that if we staved off this crisis with a subsidy”to the ship-owners, limited,
say, to a couple of years, that might be enough to bring the thing to an end ?—It
might be. It might stop the Germans continuing to run.
180. Anyhow we can test it for a couple of years by giving an inducement for
two years, or whatever short term is necessary, to Messrs. Strick to say “ No ” definitely
to Herr Ballin, and in that way we might find out what there is in it ?—Yes, you might.
181. And we should be able to reconsider our position after that ?—Yes. You
could do that for a short time. If you help them over the stile for a bit, you ’would
then be able to gauge whether the Germans really meant business.
182. Captain Slade : I want to go simply to the hydrographic question in the
Gulf. I suppose you have considered what you would require for lighting the Gidf, or
that you have some idea what would be required ?—No, I have not gone into that at
all. I only know from going up and down it two or three times myself that they have
not got a light in the place.
183. I know that there is only one at Lingah, I think, which is a very trifling
thing?—We should be very glad to have some lighthouses there, but I have not gone
into it.
184. You have formed no idea of the cost yourself?—No, I have not. As I say, I
have not gone into that at all.
185. Mr. Llovd-George : The question which was put by Sir Edward Grey is
one which occurred to me, and that is, why the Germans should approach the British
lines at all if they have got a strong subsidy ?—I said that to Sir Charles Hardinge
some time ago.
186. The Bucknall Line is not paying, is it ?—They are not paying.
187. Are Stricks paying ?—I rather think they are, but I do not think the
Bucknall Line is paying.
188. I understood you to say that a subsidized line could easily beat an un
subsidized line in the Persian Gulf The historical term used to describe the body of water between the Arabian Peninsula and Iran. ?—YYs, it could.
189. They are fighting practically, I will not say an insolvent Company, but a
Company that does not pay any dividend ?—Yes.
190. Why should they come to terms, if they have got a subsidy and they could
easily beat them ?—I do not think the Hamburg-Amerika Line can have any idea of
monopolizing the trade in the Gulf, because they have not got enough steamers ; one
steamer a month is quite insufficient to carry all the trade that goes up the Gulf
and back.
191. Still, if they conld beat them out of the Persian Gulf The historical term used to describe the body of water between the Arabian Peninsula and Iran. , they would rather do it
than share the profits with them, would they not? I should have thought so ?—YYs,